(Gebrauchte) Profi-Beamer vs. High End Consumergeräte: Vor- und Nachteile, Empfehlungen, Austausch

  • Ok. Kein Wunder, dass ich bei Christie nichts finde :-) Gibts da einen Link dazu oder muss man Andy direkt anschreiben?

    Hallo,


    ja du kannst mich direkt anschreiben.:)

    Wir sind dabei das Ganze auch mal (nachzulesen) zu gestalten. Ergo mit Datenblättern etc. Das wird aber noch eine Weile dauern, weil erst die sinnvollen" Varianten fest stehen müssen. Nicht bei allen Objektiven macht es Sinn von der Effektivität insofern.

    Oder nur ein oder zwei bestimmte Throw ratio Lösungen bei dem Objektiv Typ "X" sind sinnvoll, der Rest dann wieder nicht ...usw usw.


    Viele gute Dinge brauchen auch manchmal mehr Zeit.:zwinker2:


    ANDY


  • Thank you very much for sharing this information. Do you by any chance know how this Barco and Christie compare to these models?


    https://www.projectorcentral.com/Barco-F82_1080p.htm . And is this the same as the cineo 82?


    https://www.projectorcentral.c…and_Cinema_SUPERLUMIS.htm


    https://business.panasonic.de/visuelle-systeme/pt-rq13


    Also, what is the difference after the lens mods between the Christie HD10K-M and HD6K-M? From the factory I assume one is 10,000 lumen, one is 6,000 lumen, but what is the end result for each with the high contrast lenses? Can you squeeze more contrast out of the 10K than the 6K?


    Finally, I am wondering how many pixels, or fractions of pixels, the Christie was misconverged in the center, and in the corners, and how many pixels or fractions of pixels for the Barco cineo82 as well?

  • Hallo,


    F82 vs Cineo82

    wenn die Informationen gut sind, dann PD (Barco) die Cineo82 speziell für Heimkinoverwendung entwickelt. F82 für Veranstaltungen

    Preislich war Cineo82 doppelt so viel als die F82 Variante. Cineo 82 ist gleich wie Barco Avielo Helios


    Zu Kontrastthema... je mehr Helligkeit hast desto bessere Kontrastverhältniss kannst erreichen (mit einen idealen Blende (richtige Blende, richtige platzierung) leider bin ich nicht expert, vielleicht jemand kann besser beantworten.


    Vergleich mit Supelumis, oder Pana... keine Ahnung leider. Gefühlsmässig der Panasonic sicher besser. Laserlichtquelle, dynamische Iris...

    Superlumis ist eine gute Frage. Helligkeit ok, meiner Meinung nach Christie und Panasonic sollte besser sein (bei grösseren Leinwandgrösse) wegen bessere Objktiv.


    Konvergenz: in der Mitte beide Geräte perfekt.

    In den Ecken war Christie besser.

    Ca 1/2 Pixel Fehler bei Christie (oder noch weniger)

    ca 1 Pixel bei PD


    ist bei 315 cm Breite

  • Also, what is the difference after the lens mods between the Christie HD10K-M and HD6K-M? From the factory I assume one is 10,000 lumen, one is 6,000 lumen, but what is the end result for each with the high contrast lenses? Can you squeeze more contrast out of the 10K than the 6K?

    Hello,


    well you have more light reserve for a contrast tuning on the HD10 KM.

    You lose about 50% light through the tuning and can double the native contrast.

    But this depends on which lens you use. The more into the telephoto zoom range, the more contrast you get.

    And the more wide-angle, the less contrast in percentage.


    ANDY

  • Thanks a lot. Everything translated in a way I could understand except the part about the Panasonic. Google translate is saying that "emotionally" it is better because of laser lightsource and dynamic iris. I wasn't sure what the German word for "emotionally" is meaning but it's probably a little different than "emotionally." Also, don't Christie's also have dynamic contrast? Or not this model?


    That is great that convergence is perfect in the center. That is more important than the sides. When you say 1 pixel off on the sides of one model, do you mean 1 pixel of misconvergence and chromatic aberration total, or 1 pixel of misconvergence plus also an unspecified amount of chromatic aberration? Because I have seen a projector where the clear pixel was misconverged half a pixel but then there was a less defined shade of the same color that added another 1 pixel, but you couldnt make out the pixels clearly, and the shade was a little lighter, so I concluded it was chromatic aberration. Half a pixel of misconvergence, which you can see more defined pixel structure, and 1 pixel of chromatic aberration. Do yours have both or just misconvergence? How much of each?


    Also I ask for academic purposes, to learn going forward. If it was 0.5 pixels off across the entire screen, not just the center, would this affect the sharpness or picture quality at all from normal viewing distances? Or would it look less sharp up close than a perfectly converged version of the projector, or a 1-chip equivalent of the same projector, but from viewing distance, it would look 100% the same? In other words, a total non-issue? What about 1 pixel off across the entire screen?


    You know how there are those viewing charts that say, "For this viewing distance and screen size, 4K resolution matters compared to 1080p. But from this viewing distance and screen size, it takes up this it doesn't"? I wonder if there is anything similar for convergence? "For this screen size and viewing distance, 1 pixel of misconvergence is noticeable. But from this size/distance, it is not." Etc.


    Thank you very much. Is there any way to know what is involved with this? I am in the U.S. and I believe I have seen used HD6 or HD10's for sale, probably usually without the lenses. I don't remember the price, but the question is, say you get one of these without the lens, then what other steps are necessary to get a high contrast lens like you're talking about? Are they already available or do you have to modify it yourself? Google translate is translating what people are saying about it as "tuning" the lens, or "lens tuning." I have no idea how to modify a lens myself, if that's what it means.


    Also, if you know of any models besides certain Lumis models (or the laser version which I also already know about) in their names like the HD6 or HD10, but that also have frame interpolation from 23/24fps to 47/48fps, I've been wondering if there are any like that that people don't know about.

  • Thank you very much. Is there any way to know what is involved with this? I am in the U.S. and I believe I have seen used HD6 or HD10's for sale, probably usually without the lenses. I don't remember the price, but the question is, say you get one of these without the lens, then what other steps are necessary to get a high contrast lens like you're talking about? Are they already available or do you have to modify it yourself? Google translate is translating what people are saying about it as "tuning" the lens, or "lens tuning." I have no idea how to modify a lens myself, if that's what it means.


    Also, if you know of any models besides certain Lumis models (or the laser version which I also already know about) in their names like the HD6 or HD10, but that also have frame interpolation from 23/24fps to 47/48fps, I've been wondering if there are any like that that people don't know about.

    Hello,


    Well, I can modify the original lenses so that more contrast results in the bottom line.

    So it is a mod.

    And thermally there are also no problems then in the lens.

    And depending on the lens, slightly different contrast values result.

    Therefore, whether that then Christie models HD6 or 10 or even the Mirage series, does not matter.


    Keyword frame interpolation. :

    Only certain SIM 2 projectors are equipped with this or also the modified newer devices from Lasertec (ILEP).

    In the professional sector, only Panasonic currently does this.

    In general, however, some devices can upsample the normal 24 Hz to 48, which also ensures somewhat better movements.

    Therefore there are almost no professional projectors with this frame interpolation (only Sony GTZ 380 e.g.).


    ANDY

  • Google translate is saying that "emotionally" it is better because of laser lightsource and dynamic iris. I wasn't sure what the German word for "emotionally" is meaning but it's probably a little different than "emotionally."

    Google translated correct but the german word "gefühlsmäßig" was used wrong in this case. Better would have been "gefühlt" what just means "it seems ( to be better)" or "it feels (to be better)" .

  • Ja, ging schneller als gedacht weg (halbe Stunde oder so nach dem Einstellen des Inserates) und natürlich wollte der Käufer, dass ich das Gerät so schnell wie möglich versende.


    Ich hab aber vorher noch ein paar Fotos gemacht zum Vergleichen.


    Subjektiv wirkt der N5 merkbar besser, mit der neuen Lampe dürfte er merkbar heller sein. Werde ich auch heute messen.

  • Mahlzeit,


    auch wenn ich es super Klasse finde das Mankra hier ein JVC N5 nun in Benutzung/Besitz hat, ist das hier im Thread nicht richtig aufgehoben.:)

    Der Thread ist für Profi Beamer im ggf. Vergleich zu High End Consumer Beamer und dazu gehört der NV 5 leider nicht.


    Daher es wäre definitiv besser (IMO) das in einem JVC Thread zu verschieben.

    Denn ansonsten wird hier zu sehr abgedriftet.


    ANDY

  • Also wer bestimmt das denn hier allgemein gültig? Gibt es eine Vorgabe der Administration?

    Im avs fängt der Forums Bereich "digital high-end projectors -$3000+ USD" an.


    mfg

    Es sollte auch so aus dem Kontext bisher (Verlauf Thread) zu erkennen sein.

    Insofern hinkt der Vergleich zum AVS Forum.


    Wie beschrieben muss hier gar keiner etwas machen, ich würde es nur Schade finden, wenn nun auch jeder andere Projektor hier diskutiert werden kann.

    Dazu sind andere Threads dann (IMO) besser geeignet.


    ANDY

  • Also wer bestimmt das denn hier allgemein gültig? Gibt es eine Vorgabe der Administration?

    Im avs fängt der Forums Bereich "digital high-end projectors -$3000+ USD" an.

    Ich verstehe das Problem nicht und warum der Ton so gereizt wirkt.


    Die Frage wäre doch im JVC N-Thread besser aufgehoben, oder? Hier geht es um (gebrauchte) High-End-Projektoren als Ersatz für Consumergeräte. Die Frage oben bezieht sich aber aufs Pixelgitter des N5, insofern scheint mir die Anregung von ANDY_Cres durchaus sinnvoll.

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